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	<title>Comments on: More Than Just A Brick Wall</title>
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	<link>http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall</link>
	<description>This ain&#039;t a blog, it&#039;s a god damn arms race.</description>
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		<title>By: Rose</title>
		<link>http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall/comment-page-1#comment-2700</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall#comment-2700</guid>
		<description>Of course parents are important--they drop off their kids in the morning at the public indoctrination center. Oh, wait, we can outsource that too. Hmmmm, why DO we keep them around?

Seriously, though, we have to acknowledge that there are some parents--and I hate to use that word to describe them--who really don&#039;t care about their children. I&#039;m not sure that they would be better off in school constantly, but they would certainly do better in life if they were nurtured. That said, I&#039;m not sure the state can change the heart of a neglectful parent. The neglected kids will not necessarily show up to school, the kids who would otherwise be in daycare will show up, and then we can cry about the ones who fall through the cracks and come up with another way.

As to making it possible for one parent to stay home with the kids, I think that is more a function of culture than of money. We believe--we want to believe--that we NEED all the fancy stuff, the bigger house, the newer cars and stuff, stuff, stuff and the monthly storage fees to house it all. 

There are many families who make it work so that one parent stays home or the parents alternage work schedules. It can be done. It isn&#039;t always pretty, but it can be done.

On the subject of taking kids all over to lessons--is there no value to spending time with one&#039;s children? I mean, outside the drive-thru lane?

One other point, if I may. Adding in more hours/days to the school schedule is just another money grab. The ongoing mantra is &quot;more money for education.&quot; I might even support that idea if they did away with tenure and introduced ongoing competition for jobs--you keep your job if you are good at it, not because you&#039;ve been here for 63 years and have a garage full of materials you have accumulated over the years. In such a scenario, schools might start to attract the best and the brightest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course parents are important&#8211;they drop off their kids in the morning at the public indoctrination center. Oh, wait, we can outsource that too. Hmmmm, why DO we keep them around?</p>
<p>Seriously, though, we have to acknowledge that there are some parents&#8211;and I hate to use that word to describe them&#8211;who really don&#8217;t care about their children. I&#8217;m not sure that they would be better off in school constantly, but they would certainly do better in life if they were nurtured. That said, I&#8217;m not sure the state can change the heart of a neglectful parent. The neglected kids will not necessarily show up to school, the kids who would otherwise be in daycare will show up, and then we can cry about the ones who fall through the cracks and come up with another way.</p>
<p>As to making it possible for one parent to stay home with the kids, I think that is more a function of culture than of money. We believe&#8211;we want to believe&#8211;that we NEED all the fancy stuff, the bigger house, the newer cars and stuff, stuff, stuff and the monthly storage fees to house it all. </p>
<p>There are many families who make it work so that one parent stays home or the parents alternage work schedules. It can be done. It isn&#8217;t always pretty, but it can be done.</p>
<p>On the subject of taking kids all over to lessons&#8211;is there no value to spending time with one&#8217;s children? I mean, outside the drive-thru lane?</p>
<p>One other point, if I may. Adding in more hours/days to the school schedule is just another money grab. The ongoing mantra is &#8220;more money for education.&#8221; I might even support that idea if they did away with tenure and introduced ongoing competition for jobs&#8211;you keep your job if you are good at it, not because you&#8217;ve been here for 63 years and have a garage full of materials you have accumulated over the years. In such a scenario, schools might start to attract the best and the brightest.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenn</title>
		<link>http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall/comment-page-1#comment-2699</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall#comment-2699</guid>
		<description>I think Will Okun&#039;s heart is in right place but I do not understand his solution. It sounds very Nazi. Though, I am pretty sure the Teacher Unions will love the plan.  The problem with public education, I think, is that teachers are taught to walk the union line.  Being creative, hard working and having a heart for the children will get you a smile in public but detention in the union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Will Okun&#8217;s heart is in right place but I do not understand his solution. It sounds very Nazi. Though, I am pretty sure the Teacher Unions will love the plan.  The problem with public education, I think, is that teachers are taught to walk the union line.  Being creative, hard working and having a heart for the children will get you a smile in public but detention in the union.</p>
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		<title>By: kim</title>
		<link>http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall/comment-page-1#comment-2694</link>
		<dc:creator>kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall#comment-2694</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve taken a stance on this!Coming from a family of teachers, I can attest that  it is true educators sometimes refuse to examine the history of public education and its impact and connect that with current day life. The general public has completely absorbed the message that schools are the main place children belong or else they are being somehow wronged. I know why there is that feeling, because  in the US a hundred years ago kids who weren&#039;t in schools were often doing serious labor. There have been many positives that have come out of public education. It is/was a truly liberating and equalizing institution. But it has never been without its flaws, like most human endeavors, and to see it as a cure-all that must apply equally to every child as soon as possible in order to prepare them for the world is unrealistic. 

I even understand why that is presumed though. I think it has to do with the poor and the not so poor. Middle class people and up feel like kids in an impoverished family have much better chances of getting nutrition, mental stimulation and a future if they are in school. They have an idea that some kids are being &#039;homeschooled&#039; because their parents just don&#039;t want to enforce attendance, or maybe the kids are being put to work. I&#039;m sure this happens in some cases but I think it also is a sign of mistrust for the poor to think that they don&#039;t know how to raise their kids. For me the bottom line is the same as yours, all children are with their parents part of the time, and if abuse exists it has little to do with whether they go to school or not. There is no way to prevent abuse by policing every household. It is something that has to be done by prevention education and good neighbors and friends and family who step up to help people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve taken a stance on this!Coming from a family of teachers, I can attest that  it is true educators sometimes refuse to examine the history of public education and its impact and connect that with current day life. The general public has completely absorbed the message that schools are the main place children belong or else they are being somehow wronged. I know why there is that feeling, because  in the US a hundred years ago kids who weren&#8217;t in schools were often doing serious labor. There have been many positives that have come out of public education. It is/was a truly liberating and equalizing institution. But it has never been without its flaws, like most human endeavors, and to see it as a cure-all that must apply equally to every child as soon as possible in order to prepare them for the world is unrealistic. </p>
<p>I even understand why that is presumed though. I think it has to do with the poor and the not so poor. Middle class people and up feel like kids in an impoverished family have much better chances of getting nutrition, mental stimulation and a future if they are in school. They have an idea that some kids are being &#8216;homeschooled&#8217; because their parents just don&#8217;t want to enforce attendance, or maybe the kids are being put to work. I&#8217;m sure this happens in some cases but I think it also is a sign of mistrust for the poor to think that they don&#8217;t know how to raise their kids. For me the bottom line is the same as yours, all children are with their parents part of the time, and if abuse exists it has little to do with whether they go to school or not. There is no way to prevent abuse by policing every household. It is something that has to be done by prevention education and good neighbors and friends and family who step up to help people.</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall/comment-page-1#comment-2693</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall#comment-2693</guid>
		<description>This seems to be basically a debate about whether schools are the appropriate venue to for rescuing kids from the problems in our society.  My vote is no - the purpose of schools should not be to rescue kids from those ills.  (I don&#039;t really think schools work in terms of education either, but that is another topic altogether).

When we talk about class issues, we are talking about families who are doing all they can to financially survive.  Yes, sometimes children in those circumstances don&#039;t get as much care and support as they need.  The solution is not to take them away from their parents for the majority of the day/year and house them in an institution.  The solution is to directly help those families...

Make it possible for all families to have a parent stay home with their child.  If those families had the financial ability to have a parent stay home with their child, without worrying about how they are going to afford food and shelter, I have every faith that they would be able to find it within themselves to support and love their children.  How bout putting all the money we&#039;ve been spending on war to support *that* program?  Or the money that is being spent on school programs?  Money spent on school programs would certainly be better spent on a program to allow children to be with their parents for a majority of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This seems to be basically a debate about whether schools are the appropriate venue to for rescuing kids from the problems in our society.  My vote is no &#8211; the purpose of schools should not be to rescue kids from those ills.  (I don&#8217;t really think schools work in terms of education either, but that is another topic altogether).</p>
<p>When we talk about class issues, we are talking about families who are doing all they can to financially survive.  Yes, sometimes children in those circumstances don&#8217;t get as much care and support as they need.  The solution is not to take them away from their parents for the majority of the day/year and house them in an institution.  The solution is to directly help those families&#8230;</p>
<p>Make it possible for all families to have a parent stay home with their child.  If those families had the financial ability to have a parent stay home with their child, without worrying about how they are going to afford food and shelter, I have every faith that they would be able to find it within themselves to support and love their children.  How bout putting all the money we&#8217;ve been spending on war to support *that* program?  Or the money that is being spent on school programs?  Money spent on school programs would certainly be better spent on a program to allow children to be with their parents for a majority of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Summer</title>
		<link>http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall/comment-page-1#comment-2692</link>
		<dc:creator>Summer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall#comment-2692</guid>
		<description>Lis, I do agree that children born into families that don&#039;t care need intervention. However I think that instead of attacking the parents and taking their children away, this is the good ones that are in poor situations, the money spent on the mandatory school time could be better served by helping the parents and their communities. If they are feeling detached from their children already, how much worse will it be if the children are away from them longer and sooner?  How will those children grow to be good parents when living in a culture that takes them from their parents.

You know, you are right about feeling personally attacked. Let me explain a little so I don&#039;t sound so crazy. I live in the middle of Oklahoma, I&#039;m surrounded by Native Americans and reservations, and I am a quarter Cherokee. So when I read mandatory schools with longer hours, longer years, and starting sooner to try to save the children from their parents I immediately go &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/soulwound.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  So yeah, I do get a bit defensive. LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lis, I do agree that children born into families that don&#8217;t care need intervention. However I think that instead of attacking the parents and taking their children away, this is the good ones that are in poor situations, the money spent on the mandatory school time could be better served by helping the parents and their communities. If they are feeling detached from their children already, how much worse will it be if the children are away from them longer and sooner?  How will those children grow to be good parents when living in a culture that takes them from their parents.</p>
<p>You know, you are right about feeling personally attacked. Let me explain a little so I don&#8217;t sound so crazy. I live in the middle of Oklahoma, I&#8217;m surrounded by Native Americans and reservations, and I am a quarter Cherokee. So when I read mandatory schools with longer hours, longer years, and starting sooner to try to save the children from their parents I immediately go <a href="http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/soulwound.html">here</a>.  So yeah, I do get a bit defensive. LOL</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall/comment-page-1#comment-2690</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall#comment-2690</guid>
		<description>The problem is people only place the focus on  that one sect.  Might be easier to explain

1. Middle class family has good jobs, good insurance, good home has baby.  Has the same family Dr. throughout.  At  the first year check-up the Dr. notices the child might have missed a milestone.  Dr ask to follow-up.  Dr. suggest a Birth to Three program.  Birth to three comes in and notice child’s speech is behind.  Speech Therapy comes out to the house works with child.  When this child enters kindergarten he is level with all kids his age, no one notices there was delays

2. Young mom has child, lucky to get into clinic to have child checked.  Clinic is staffed with many Dr, child sees different Dr. every time.  Check heart, weight  height child okay, misses slight speech disability.  Child starts kindergarten is far behind child his age.  Has a lot of catch-up can’t catch-up, acts out set aside “problem child.”

Comparing lower economic class schools with middle class schools is not fair.  If ALL schools were a level playing field, if EVERY parent were made aware of programs in their state to help young children.  If EVERY parent was granted equal health care to catch possible learning disabilities.  Sadly it is not that way.  Look beyond the school, the home, and look at society as a whole.  

I will send my son to a brick and mortar school and planned to be involved.  I was a parent who was blessed to find my sons disability early, he has a chance.   
What stings is the generalization, as all parents that home teach are evil child beaters.  As an educated man he needs to EDUCATE himself.

FYI here is a stat by state list of early childhood programs.  In WI it is Birth to Three.   http://www.nectac.org/contact/ptccoord.asp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is people only place the focus on  that one sect.  Might be easier to explain</p>
<p>1. Middle class family has good jobs, good insurance, good home has baby.  Has the same family Dr. throughout.  At  the first year check-up the Dr. notices the child might have missed a milestone.  Dr ask to follow-up.  Dr. suggest a Birth to Three program.  Birth to three comes in and notice child’s speech is behind.  Speech Therapy comes out to the house works with child.  When this child enters kindergarten he is level with all kids his age, no one notices there was delays</p>
<p>2. Young mom has child, lucky to get into clinic to have child checked.  Clinic is staffed with many Dr, child sees different Dr. every time.  Check heart, weight  height child okay, misses slight speech disability.  Child starts kindergarten is far behind child his age.  Has a lot of catch-up can’t catch-up, acts out set aside “problem child.”</p>
<p>Comparing lower economic class schools with middle class schools is not fair.  If ALL schools were a level playing field, if EVERY parent were made aware of programs in their state to help young children.  If EVERY parent was granted equal health care to catch possible learning disabilities.  Sadly it is not that way.  Look beyond the school, the home, and look at society as a whole.  </p>
<p>I will send my son to a brick and mortar school and planned to be involved.  I was a parent who was blessed to find my sons disability early, he has a chance.<br />
What stings is the generalization, as all parents that home teach are evil child beaters.  As an educated man he needs to EDUCATE himself.</p>
<p>FYI here is a stat by state list of early childhood programs.  In WI it is Birth to Three.   <a href="http://www.nectac.org/contact/ptccoord.asp">http://www.nectac.org/contact/ptccoord.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jessica Gottlieb</title>
		<link>http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall/comment-page-1#comment-2689</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica Gottlieb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wiredfornoise.com/more-than-just-a-brick-wall#comment-2689</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you address this very important issue.

I don&#039;t homeschool my kids nor do I feel qualified to do so. In keeping with all of that I also never help them with their homework... you know, failure and all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you address this very important issue.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t homeschool my kids nor do I feel qualified to do so. In keeping with all of that I also never help them with their homework&#8230; you know, failure and all.</p>
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